SUMMARY KEYWORDS
technology, people, workforce, future, point, reimagined, work, digital transformation, podcast, heading, bit, conversation, suppose, tools, freedom, robots, run, reimagine, implement, company
SPEAKERS
Phil Cook
Kathryn Hume
Phil Cook 00:00
The idea is that you need to maintain a certain level of productivity to be able to satisfy the five day workweek. But do it in four, I think everyone can look at what we do during the week and almost immediately identify 20% of your work, being able to be automated or removed or something like that. So I really think technology can help with strategies like that, too.
Voiceover 00:20
This is the Reimagined Workforce podcast from Workforce Transformations Australia, the podcast for People and Culture professionals seeking to drive meaningful, impactful and financially sustainable workforce transformation through curiosity, creativity, and data science. In this podcast, we hear from talented and innovative people making a positive difference for their people, their organisations, and those their organisations serve. They share stories and learnings to help others on their path to transforming their workforce today and tomorrow. Now, here’s your host, Kath Hume.
Kathryn Hume 01:00
So Phil Cook is a digital transformation enthusiast. Not only do we share a passion for making a positive difference through transformation, I discovered this morning that Phil and I both ran in the Sydney running festival on Sunday, I was pretty proud of my 21 Ks, and then was overly impressed to learn that Phil doubled my efforts and ran the marathon. And to add to that he has an 18 month old so managed to train throughout our cold winter and maintain his role as a dad. That’s pretty impressive stuff. But we’re actually here to talk about Phil’s contribution to the digital transformation space. So Phil, welcome to the Reimagined Workforce podcast.
Phil Cook 01:38
Thanks for having me.
Kathryn Hume 01:40
It’s great to have you here. So Phil, would you mind sharing with us your experience today? And what’s brought you to the digital transformation space?
Phil Cook 01:48
Good question, that for me, digital transformation didn’t come by design, it was more of a chance for me in terms of meeting somebody that brought me into this world. Beforehand, I was working in sports marketing, I was very much set in my ways. When I was going to university, that’s where I wanted to go and work all things sports and sports marketing, but it sort of wasn’t exactly what I was hoping for. And then a chance meeting with a sales manager who offered me a job over a decade ago now that my former company, and yeah, well, selling software to the recruitment space. And I didn’t know anything about software, didn’t know anything about recruitment, didn’t know anything about really anything in that world. But I don’t know, they like to look at me or something and it’s been eight and a half years there. And yeah, sort of just fell in love with technology and how that can play a role in helping businesses do better and maybe edging into this conversation, how technology and people can work better together to be more efficent and things like that. So that’s the background.
Kathryn Hume 02:47
It’s funny, the number of people who say that their career happened almost by accident. And I think it’s really relevant for the conversations we’re having around the reimagined workforce, because I think we’re putting a lot of effort into planning the future. But we really need to understand that there are a lot of things that come down to chance meetings, and it’s also about who you know, and how you interact with those people and the people who see us for who we are and the value that we can deliver to our business that we might actually not see in ourselves. So I think it’s a really interesting story. And I love the way people then leverage that and take those opportunities, but build on them and grow their career in that that way. So can you tell me what your reimagined workforce might look like?
Phil Cook 03:33
It’s a good question. I think about it a lot, is where we going and maybe to your introduction there. I’m an enthusiast of digital transformation and so maybe I’m a bit biased because I work in technology and sell technology to people. But for a reimagined workforce standpoint, I see it as a symbiotic relationship between people and robots. When I say robots, I mean that in a couple of different ways, like workflow automation tools, so your typical software and how you utilise that within your business to be more efficient. But also like things you can see Amazon are doing some great things with robotic automation in their warehouses and things like that. So, anything that technology can deploy to maybe alleviate the administrative burden that humans would have to do themselves.
At the same time, I’ll caveat that by also saying that, I don’t believe being there’s a naysayers out there that robots are going to take over the world like that. But I don’t believe that’s the case. I think people buy from people, people interact with people. I think the world is very much human based. And those relationships are sort of the lifeblood of that. So my reimagined workforce is that symbiotic relationship between the two where robots can help us do more of that more interacting more people time, I suppose, and more adding value between us.
Kathryn Hume 04:55
I’ve said it before. It just adds the richness that work can bring for us, because then those robots can take those menial tasks that repetitive stuff, the low brain work, and allow us to perform those purposeful tasks that contribute value and do deliver a better experience for people that we’re serving. For me, the future you’re describing is actually quite positive and really rich.
Phil Cook 05:23
The other point I’ll make on that as well is, there’s a lot of talk around and this podcast is a great example of, of what is work. We’ve got the legacy nine to five, five day workweek, which has been around forever, almost. And so people are reimagining what that looks like. And one example is the four day workweek as a starting point, I actually think that technology can actually help companies implement work schedules like that. Because, the idea is that you need to maintain a certain level of productivity to be able to satisfy the five day work week, but do it in four, I think everyone can look at what we do during the week and almost immediately identify 20% of your work, being able to be automated or removed or something like that. So I really think technology can help with strategies like that, too.
Kathryn Hume 06:11
In a practical sense, are you able to explain that for listeners, what that might actually look like?
Phil Cook 06:16
Well, I suppose when you dig into it, most people in their jobs will have some sort of technology that they’re utilising whether it’s a CRM and ERP and Human Resources tool, or something. And historically, those tools that have been very much based in admin or human work, you have to spend time, they’re only as good as the information that goes into it. There’s a requirement for you and everybody else in the organisation to input data and things like that, where now you can implement workflow automations, once you do one task, it kicks off a chain of reaction automatically. Now you need to do it. And you know, what happens thereafter? And so yeah, I work in sales and so we use a CRM and so the idea is that, when you when you have one piece of data, you’re workflow automation tools, or your robotic automation or whatever you want to call it can take care of the rest of the process, which means you’re not sitting there doing that work. You can you can focus on other things, you can have more time to speak with people or chat or, or things like that.
Kathryn Hume 07:22
Yeah. And do that work. That’s not repetitive that requires a bit of thought around this complex problem. How do I solve this one and use that creative thinking?
Phil Cook 07:31
Exactly, yeah. Yeah, I think all of us could, whatever part of the workforce you’re in, I think you could almost certainly hone in on 20% of your workload, which is menial tasks. I don’t think humans need to do those sorts of things. I think that’s where the real value add is.
Kathryn Hume 07:47
So what are you seeing on the horizon that’s guiding your actions?
07:51
That’s a great question. I, again, probably saved in the technology piece, I, I tend to try and look at it from a trend standpoint, on for those more techy nerds out there, they’ll know they’ll know of Moore’s law, are those sort of held true for the last 50 or so years. And basically, for those that don’t know it, it’s computing power doubling, or the capacity of computing power doubling every 18 to 24 months, is the reason why the 70s and 80s computers were the size of a room, and now that you can almost fit them inside, in the palm of the hand. So that’s showing no signs of slowing down. So you know, maybe to answer your question directly there. So if you look at a trend, the mind almost boggles the things like where that’s going. And so, look on the horizon, I’m gonna keeping an open mind, I suppose, to where that may be heading. But I think it’s just understanding that on an individual level, we can’t necessarily contribute too much to the trend as much as we just need to account for it in our work life in our daily life. Technology is just rapidly innovating every day, every week, every year, there’s new tools coming onto the market, which make it more productive or like process automations, and things like that. Maybe it’s that point about keeping a growth mindset amongst it all to see where that can potentially fit.
Kathryn Hume 09:06
And I think it really speaks to the importance of doing the horizon scanning and looking proactively to understand what is coming because I know, for myself, for example, I hear this word, the metaverse, for example. And I really think I’ve got to look into that a lot more and what impact that’s going to have on work because if I don’t, it’s going to happen and I’m going to be behind the eight ball. So that horizon scanning piece where we go out and look at what are the trends that are happening? Where are we headed because it’s so difficult to imagine a future that doesn’t exists? And that’s where I find getting different people involved in the conversation. And that’s what I’ve really loved about doing the podcast is because I learned through talking to people and hearing what they’re working on and where they’re taking the future. And it helps me to create a plan in my mind of where we’re heading. So we can do that scenario planning and think through. Okay, so if that’s where we’re headed, how do we respond to that? How do we proactively create some scenarios that will see us thrive into the future?
Phil Cook 10:13
Yeah, you’re right. I think it’s even just the thought of the metaverse make people not scared of maybe a bit apprehensive about, where that’s going. It’s quite forward thinking in terms of that sort of technology and even its capabilities now, but like, what’s it going to be like in 10, or 20 years? Is the idea that we’re all going to be sitting there in chairs with virtual reality glasses on living our lives? Like? I don’t know, I don’t think it’s going to go to that degree in our lifetimes anyway. But it’s not too far fetched to think at the same time,
Kathryn Hume 10:45
I don’t think so. Yeah.
Phil Cook 10:48
But, one thing I would like to say is, there’s consumer based technology, like your Facebook, and Instagram, and WhatsApp. And then there’s business tech, more anecdotal, just from my perspective, but I always find business technology, like b2b sort of tech, trails behind by a number of years, your consumer based technology. So where your Facebook’s and your meta’s, really pushing boundaries on what technology can do or how it fits into our broader lives. I always find it takes b2b technology, a little ways to catch up to that maybe one thing to be mindful of particularly reimagine workforce, because a lot of that will be sort of business related technology that helps.
Kathryn Hume 11:29
So I hadn’t really thought of that. I wonder if that’s partly because business is we’ve got processes that we need to follow and approvals that we need to get through. Whereas in the public arena, it’s there’s a little bit more freedom.
Phil Cook 11:41
Yeah, that’s a good point that I’ve not thought of, I always sort of leaned on the fact that meta, the total addressable market is everybody. For a business technology company, you really sort of honing in on either a specific niche or a specific type of company or type of technology. So your total opportunity isn’t as great and we get there, the investment that comes along with it will never be the same as like a Facebook. But as is the case with technology, if somebody pushes boundaries, then it tends to trickle down into the rest of the space anyway. So just take a little bit of time.
Kathryn Hume 12:18
I wonder if what the gig economy will do in that space, too, because I guess there’s sort of straddling both spaces there. Yeah. So this is this is a bit of a side gig for me the Reimagine Workforce podcasts, I do have a full time job, but to do a podcast in that job, the approvals that I’d have to go through, they’d be steps in the process. So it’s a lot easier for me to just Google, how do I create a podcast and go about it and use the tools that are readily accessible? So I wonder if, when we see more and more gig workers who have the freedom to operate in that way, I wonder if there’ll be a bit of a increase in pace of adoption of the more public or technologies?
Phil Cook 13:05
Yeah, I think the general workforce, maybe to your point there is in becoming more freer, where, yeah, if you go back 50 or 60 years, it was you join a company committed to that company, you stay there for your career, and you know, for the most part anyway, and then you retire, and everyone’s happy. Whereas nowadays, it’s the ways you can work and how technology is even enabled. That has been amazing. For instance, like one of the guys in my old team, he’s currently living the dream. And I think he’s in Bali at the moment. But travelling around Southeast Asia, still working in as Australian hours, but at the same time travelling. And I think there’s so many stories like that we can sort of work from anywhere and utilise the tools at your disposal to do that. So, yeah, I think the technology is really at the core of that, and that point you’re making around the gig economy and like, what is what is work?
Kathryn Hume 13:54
And I think that picture you paint of the person who’s able to travel and work at the same time. I mean, that is, surely that’s most people’s dream. And that’s what I love about the reimagine workforce is just thinking about what are the possibilities? And, I do, I’ve got four kids myself, they’re not kids, actually, they’re they’re spanning from 16 to 24. And now three of them have already run their own businesses, albeit very, very small businesses. But they’ve all had the initiative to sort of say, I don’t necessarily want to be employed at the moment, I want to run a lawn mowing business or run a dancing school. And they’ve done that. So I think it’s really interesting to think if that’s if that’s the potential future workforce that we’re looking at, what’s that going to look like ten years time?
Phil Cook 14:42
I think, I think there’s a lot of different people on LinkedIn and stuff like that and they talk about imagining your own life, like designing your own life and how works was in and around that as opposed to having that dictated to you by what legacy to would like work trends would suggest, like the nine to five, being the office sort of thing. So I still think there’s a place for that. But equally, we’re sort of heading in that direction we’re giving you the freedom, I suppose to design the way that your life should work. I’ll just wait till you’re retired to have that freedom.
Kathryn Hume 15:17
I was talking to another potential guest. And she was saying, what do you think we’ve seen this great resignation? And she was feeling that people were dissatisfied. So they thought the answer was to resign and, walk an alternative path. But her sense was, anecdotally was that, that people found that that actually wasn’t the answer. And she was actually questioning and I think that’s a really good question, which I don’t have the answer to. But she was wondering is if, because people had so much freedom, because they have so much choice and this whole hybrid working where come into the office, it’s not dictated to, she was a bit concerned that maybe people need a bit more structure in their lives. And maybe work used to be that for people, we’ve gone through such a rapid transition over COVID, that maybe the lack of structure is causing people to feel uncomfortable and not really know what direction to head in.
Phil Cook 16:15
Yeah, yeah, I would say that, even on a personal level, you’d go through, obviously, that that period there from 2020 onwards, completely, like different to what it was prior to that and straight off the off the cliff sort of thing that we had to adjust. But yeah, that point is like, yeah, freedom, freedom is great. But then equally, you’re within a job, you’re still being held accountable to the metrics of the role, right. And so you have too much freedom, then that can almost be overwhelming. And maybe that sort of lends itself into the rise of maybe the mental health conversation, and that sort of thing, too. And even the freedom and being isolated. So I sort of said before that I still think it’s a place for the office and all that for that reason, I think, yeah, the sense of community needs to still exists, which I don’t know, I don’t think technology can fully replace that.
Kathryn Hume 17:10
No, and I think we’re all slowly discovering that. I do think all of these complexity, just for those of us who are looking at workforces, and how we design them, and how we design work and the workplace, whatever that might be the really important questions and really good, I think that we’re seeing a trend that we’re going more into employee listening and actively hearing from our employees, who are really the execution vehicles for our organisations to make sure that we’re delivering for their needs. So was there able to perform it to their potential as well? Yeah. So we were talking about the projected future versus the preferable future. So where we might want to lead, as opposed to where we’re headed. So what are you doing to alter our paths to move to that more preferable future?
Phil Cook 18:01
It’s a good question. And maybe one of the points I alluded to earlier, was when the doomsday preppers if you really explore that path of where technology could go, sort of head down the Terminator Skynet scenario, where it’s all consuming robots take over and humans are the sub species underneath that. And yeah, it could happen. Definitely. Do I think that’s going to happen anytime soon? No.
The interesting side note is if you listen to people, some of the higher ups who work at Google and things like that, they believe that their AI is already seen sentient, which is basically self awareness or technology self aware of itself. So yeah, a few people already think that we’re at that stage, which is a little bit daunting to think. So I think that’s the potentially one projected future is heading down that route. I think, just maybe the purpose of this podcast is scanning the horizon, where we’re going and making and tracing that back to what are we doing today to maybe not end up in that doomsday sort of scenario? I think the wheels of technological innovation are in motion, I don’t think they’re going to stop in terms of artificial intelligence and where that’s going. I think it’s heading in that direction. But I think there’s other things like ai principles, and governance frameworks and things like that, which, which is definitely over and above, like my station. But I think, that’s a really good place to start to keep that in check. But then on, maybe on a personal level, it just broaching the conversation around well, where does technology fit in our lives? Where does it fit in our work lives? And being mindful of that? On a personal level? Yeah, it’s a tough one. You just need to understand that technology has a role, but it also doesn’t have a role. I think at the same time, you can see people you catch the bus to work. Everybody head in their phone So, it’s a great place to catch up on emails or read or listen to podcasts and all that sort of stuff. But I think just being mindful is still a place without technology, in some capacity in our lives. And that’s what, you started with our running the other day, one of the reasons I love running is that it’s just a complete, there’s no technology, aside from my watch tracking my run, but I don’t need anything, I don’t need to read anything. I’m just out there in nature running. And I think that, for me anyway, on a personal level, that’s my escape for the hackers, sometimes it just can take over. So yeah, I think maybe to summarise that it’s just been being mindful, I suppose it’s probably not the best answer that you’re hoping for. But
Kathryn Hume 20:43
No, no, no, I think it’s great, I think you raise a really important point around the power of technology. And it’s still humans who are programming at this point. So those people have an enormous amount of power. And I think to your point to if we can blend those two points that you mentioned, was that we know that people are designing our phones, to encourage us to use them all the time. And I don’t know how ethical that is, we’re creating a population or a society that are heavily reliant on these devices. And as you say, you just have to sit on a train or in a public space and look at how many people are using it. And I’m guilty of it. And I know that I know that I’m addicted to it. But I guess it goes back to the question of the people who were designing it with AI, what I worry about is the potential to do things that we don’t even know are happening. And so I’ve been reading a bit about employee listening at the moment. And you know, we’ve got the ability to scan chats that people are having at work. And ethically, I just don’t think that that’s right, if people are unaware, albeit it may be done for the right reasons, to understand how people are feeling and what we might be able to do about that. But I think in the wrong hands, the power that that yields could lead us along a path that was not favourable to the population. So I think we just need to be mindful of that. And that point you made around having principles and governance. Now is the time I think we really need to be having those conversations and get agreement before we go down a path that we back from
Phil Cook 22:30
I agree, I think I’d sort of what we live in New South Wales. So New Zealand, where the government has Victor Dominello, who’s been the sort of the digital transformation Minister for a long gone. He’s doing some great work in and around the application of that in government, I think pleading the judge, though, although he’s, he’s set to retire next year, but I think he’s made some good work, particularly in our, in our space around that. And the application of technology throughout government could cause you, right, yeah, like, in the wrong hands. It could be devastating. It’s all very based in psychological analysis and making addicted to do these tools. It’s, like a marketer’s dream, I suppose you can even see it in like the, the articles that are always popping up on LinkedIn, or Facebook, or Instagram under the words that they use and the phrases that they’re very much up to when, like I said before, it’s above my station at the moment anyway, in terms of affecting sort of the government that but it’s definitely a conversation that needs to continue to happen. I think on a personal level, for anybody’s listening to this, it’s just being mindful of that, because I think you can get into a zombie state, I suppose, with the way it’s been deployed, and will continue to be deployed in more effectively in the future with tools that are not yet developed.
Kathryn Hume 23:52
And so what levers do you pull to enable you to transform the workforce that you have now into what you need for the future?
Phil Cook 24:00
Well, there’s two things. So from a work standpoint, I’m selling digital transformation to my customers. And so we’re specifically working on we call it deskless workforce, I worked for a company called Skedulo, our software services the deskless was workforce, which is 80% of the workforce that don’t sit behind a desk, they’re out building service technicians, home health care practitioners, things like that. So different from that side of things. The levers that we’re pulling towards, we’re helping them be more efficient with their work and delivering are utilising technology for them to have a better work experience while they’re out in the field is there obviously mobile technology now is sort of catching up in terms of what it can do. For people that don’t sit behind a desk where historically most innovation in technology before that was very much like web application based computer based. So that’s where our company’s been particularly successful is spoiling that the mobile labour in that regard to help people that don’t necessarily sit behind a computer. I suppose the other side of that would be from a lack of personal level in maybe internally like what technology we’re using. So maybe one thing when it comes to internally from a workflow standpoint is just being open to the conversation around where technology’s going, I think there’s, it’s almost like Lego, when it comes to building technology, you build a platform, and then you layered on top. But if, if you’re on the wrong technology stack, then you’re limiting your ability to be successful in the future utilising the most innovative forward thinking tech that’s been developed at the time. So right now, you most people will probably be familiar with companies like Salesforce, or SAP or, or things like that the reason they’re so successful is that they’ve built a platform approach to technology, which means you implement the core platform, and then you can bolt on the bits that you need on top of that, which makes it really flexible, and enables, I suppose development and innovation in the future. Because right at the core of it, you can develop the core technology, but then also in the future, when you think get developed and get built on top of it, you can deploy those quite quickly as well. So, but it may be that point there around, what are you doing now to enable that in the future is, is just making sure your technology is compatible, you’re implementing the right platform, or to allow yourself flexibility in the future to benefit from what is to come. And we do that internally, we’ve got we’ve got a whole raft of technology, in our business, and it all interlinked. I think that’s the key point, when I started selling technology will try to convince people to move off server based systems, they did their job for a period, but they were just super clunky in terms of if you needed to integrate with other technology, or if you needed to extract the data in a certain way. Whereas nowadays, most companies have this platform approach. And I think the platform approach is the right way to implement technology, because it’s just so flexible. Yeah. That answers your question.
Kathryn Hume 26:53
Yeah. And I like the fact that you’ve identified that group of people who probably were being missed as the deskless workers that you refer to and I’m really surprised. 80% That’s huge. Like, that’s actually a massive proportion of the workforce. Would that be growing?
Phil Cook 27:09
To be honest, I’m not sure onthat statistic. Yeah, yeah, I was actually because I was unaware of that as well, before I joined this new company, and it’s sort of our, our mantra. And so their vision is to service this huge part of the workforce, which don’t sit behind a desk. And that’s that’s globally, that number. So yeah, there’s lots of people that aren’t necessarily sitting at a desk, they’re out and about, they’re doing other stuff. So
Kathryn Hume 27:33
Yeah, we have that New South Wales Health, we have to consider, we’ve got a large proportion of our workforce on their feet all day, not sitting at desks, and really have to think about when we’re trying to send communications or change management strategies and things we really need to think about. But what’s the experience like of these people, and you don’t want to isolate people or exclude people, because you’ve communicated in a way that they are not accessible? Definitely, I
Phil Cook 28:01
Definitely, I think that’s a key part of what we’re doing at Skedulo now is just developing technology, which is, I suppose easier to use for those people that are out and about, it’s safe to assume that most people will have a smartphone. And I think that’s the point we’re at where, the Bring Your Own Device sort of mindset, and then deploy technology on in the form of an application or something like that. So making it as easy as possible to feel linked back to HQ. So in a lot of circumstances, they’re administrators or people in headquarters, like yourself, like you just sort of mentioned, that need to give you the information or work orders or whatever it is out of the building. Just trying to bridge that gap has been a key challenge. Yeah, it’s something that I’m working on, with lots of different companies right now. So it’s an interesting space.
Kathryn Hume 28:50
What advice do you have for people who want to transform their workforces?
Phil Cook 28:55
I think it’s just being open to the conversation around how technology can fit within now, I think, all too often you sit down at the table, and you have doubts with different bits or variants or two businesses. And it’s, well, this is the way we’ve always done it, or, or we have to have people do this job, or or whatever it is. And instead of working back from well, what outcome are we trying to achieve? These are the steps that we need to implement. And I think it’s just maybe not necessarily throwing it out the window, but mapping it out, and then being open to the conversation around. Okay, well, what parts of this process do have to be done by people and what parts can be done by robots? What parts could be scrapped altogether? If you know, we completely reimagined like what it is that we’re that we’re doing and how we’re doing it. Because I think that has really tangible effects on the actual workforce. If you can take the Amazon example, they implemented robots in their warehouse where previously they needed a whole workforce of people to go and grab the bags and they don’t need to do that anymore. So that streamline that whole thing for smaller business. A lot of the time small businesses think we’re too small for that, I actually think it’s more important for those to operate as efficiently as possible to compete with some of the larger players. And there’s a good example the other day, I was chatting with a business who will go through this process of mapping out their workplace and they painted the table and said, look, this is the way that we’ve mapped it out. And these are our goals, beliefs, process flows. But equally, we know that they’re steeped in our legacy systems. So can you please present that, but what you think, would be best practice based on your experience working with other companies? And I think that’s the right mindset to have is if you’re reimagining your workforce, it’s like, well, what work are they doing? And how can we help them be better? How can technology take over some of the menial admin tasks? Because it can even do the other point earlier? Just I do? Do people need to work nine to five, five days a week? Can they work different times? Can they work remotely? You know, all that sort of stuff? And in certain circumstances they aren’t? And that’s fine. But in certain circumstances they can. So yeah, I think it’s just having that growth mindset. Things are changing, the shifts in the way that things are happening. So, yeah, just being, just being open to that, I think, is probably the, the answer.
Kathryn Hume 31:12
And I love that you’re empowering people and encouraging them to think differently. So that whole, this is how we’ve always done it is such a barrier to innovation and being able to have someone come in and say, hang on, clean slate, this is how I think, of course, and then look at okay, but what are the barriers to us now with legacy systems that we need to abide by, at least for a little while until we get to that space? And then then how do we work through that to arrive at the future?
Phil Cook 31:43
The other thing is, maybe two points off the back that first one is it’s not easy. But ultimately, it’s it’s, it could be worth it. If you get it right. Maybe the biggest barrier is it’s so easy to just to stick with the status quo. And, you know, if it’s working well enough, I think that’s maybe the biggest barrier. So it’s like, it’s good enough. Yeah. And then people don’t want to change. But I think the broader point on that is that things are changing anyway. So if you’re just doing nothing, and sticking with the status quo, you’re going to, you’re going to get gobbled up. The example I always give there is the Netflix blockbuster example, of blockbuster was huge, multibillion dollar company. They thought they were doing well, they had opportunity to buy Netflix, but they weren’t sort of scanning the horizon. Netflix now is obviously have their blockbuster has one store.
Kathryn Hume 32:29
Like the palm pilot or the Nokia, Motorola. Okay, this has been a fantastic conversation. I’ve really enjoyed speaking with you. I’ve actually learned a lot in this conversation. I will pop down your LinkedIn details in the show notes that anyone who would like to explore further with you what scheduler is able to do for them. And Skedulo, correct me if I’m wrong? It’s Skedulo. Correct. Excellent. All right. Well, thank you so much for your time. Enjoy your recovery this week. I hope it all goes well. And yeah, thanks. I look forward to talking to you again.
33:07
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